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Post by je85 on Dec 29, 2023 6:38:16 GMT
Having been fortunate to have a few time zones of separation from Woods departure and the Tranmere result I am more convinced now - 48hrs after the fact this is a positive for our chances of getting away from the bottom of L2.
I saw Bill Rice of BBC RM’s comments effectively suggesting that there are two chains of thought around the sacking - a) Wood over achieved last season and b)injuries have done for him and are the main factors in the poor first half of the season. Personally I think both don’t really tell the story of the last 18months certainly when you exclude the ‘mitigating factors’ we routinely broach in this forum.
Tactically we have never gotten close to Wood’s original ideal, and coming into this season we seem to have become an end of the night yellow label fruit salad of a team. I don’t see what framework he has ever tried to build off style wise, and it’s become a bizarre mix of ideas whilst playing off the back foot. Whether it’s Ingram, Shep, or Garbutt as underlapping CB’s in a three akin to Granada in La Liga, or a low block version of City that he has tried to achieve we have become a team that spends so much time in our own half our attack is pretty non existent.
Everything we do with or without the ball is far too deep. For a team with +60% possession most weeks we average less than 40% between the center circle and the oppositions 6 yard box. The knock here is we almost never turn the ball over in offensive areas - Salford are bottom for regains that end in a shot(9 - w/ 1 goal coming from the 9 shots) vs. Mansfield who are top with 41 shot - resulting in 5 goals. We are bottom for direct attacks which illustrates a lack of pace up top but also an inability to bait teams out to get behind them despite playing a system that is clearly designed to corral the opposition having gone over the top. Factor in poor game management and what appears to be a lack of Intensity this season versus last and you can see why we are unable to really pressure teams.
I believe the squad we have is better when fit than last season’s. We needed to improve in both boxes and the area in front of the back line to be able to build out quicker and higher up the pitch. Between Ashley, Tilt, Garbutt, Ingram and John defensively we should have done that. Wood couldn’t handle his own remit and it’s cost him his job. On a match day I am dubious about his staff also, but I hope with time they get found out too.
Wood has always been seen as a yes man for the board and his engagement with the fans has been pretty weird most weeks in his post match comments. With hindsight and as other stories are coming out about United and the end of Butt’s tenure there, essentially due to his running battles with Johnny Murtough. I can’t help but think poaching Wood was as much an F U to Murtough and Woodward, as well as looking after a former advocate within United’s coaching set up. I can see Wood back at United coaching at youth level when Ineos properly get a grip of the running of the sporting operation.
But a L2 manager he never is nor will be based on this season, I hope Dean Holden is considered as a replacement because I think he gets this neck of the woods and type of football required. If it’s Giggs - by way of a PR exercise/rehabilitation I think more questions have to be put to the owners about their motives going forward.
Strap in I think it’s going to be a bumpy ride til the summer. UTA!
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Post by Chris P. Bacon on Dec 29, 2023 8:05:39 GMT
Having been fortunate to have a few time zones of separation from Woods departure and the Tranmere result I am more convinced now - 48hrs after the fact this is a positive for our chances of getting away from the bottom of L2. I saw Bill Rice of BBC RM’s comments effectively suggesting that there are two chains of thought around the sacking - a) Wood over achieved last season and b)injuries have done for him and are the main factors in the poor first half of the season. Personally I think both don’t really tell the story of the last 18months certainly when you exclude the ‘mitigating factors’ we routinely broach in this forum. Tactically we have never gotten close to Wood’s original ideal, and coming into this season we seem to have become an end of the night yellow label fruit salad of a team. I don’t see what framework he has ever tried to build off style wise, and it’s become a bizarre mix of ideas whilst playing off the back foot. Whether it’s Ingram, Shep, or Garbutt as underlapping CB’s in a three akin to Granada in La Liga, or a low block version of City that he has tried to achieve we have become a team that spends so much time in our own half our attack is pretty non existent. Everything we do with or without the ball is far too deep. For a team with +60% possession most weeks we average less than 40% between the center circle and the oppositions 6 yard box. The knock here is we almost never turn the ball over in offensive areas - Salford are bottom for regains that end in a shot(9 - w/ 1 goal coming from the 9 shots) vs. Mansfield who are top with 41 shot - resulting in 5 goals. We are bottom for direct attacks which illustrates a lack of pace up top but also an inability to bait teams out to get behind them despite playing a system that is clearly designed to corral the opposition having gone over the top. Factor in poor game management and what appears to be a lack of Intensity this season versus last and you can see why we are unable to really pressure teams. I believe the squad we have is better when fit than last season’s. We needed to improve in both boxes and the area in front of the back line to be able to build out quicker and higher up the pitch. Between Ashley, Tilt, Garbutt, Ingram and John defensively we should have done that. Wood couldn’t handle his own remit and it’s cost him his job. On a match day I am dubious about his staff also, but I hope with time they get found out too. Wood has always been seen as a yes man for the board and his engagement with the fans has been pretty weird most weeks in his post match comments. With hindsight and as other stories are coming out about United and the end of Butt’s tenure there, essentially due to his running battles with Johnny Murtough. I can’t help but think poaching Wood was as much an F U to Murtough and Woodward, as well as looking after a former advocate within United’s coaching set up. I can see Wood back at United coaching at youth level when Ineos properly get a grip of the running of the sporting operation. But a L2 manager he never is nor will be based on this season, I hope Dean Holden is considered as a replacement because I think he gets this neck of the woods and type of football required. If it’s Giggs - by way of a PR exercise/rehabilitation I think more questions have to be put to the owners about their motives going forward. Strap in I think it’s going to be a bumpy ride til the summer. UTA! I’m not big on tactics. For me, football is s simple enough game and we get the simple things wrong. We have Cairns running around his box to play the quick ball, for our defenders to slow everything down. So slow that as you say, we aren’t dragging those players out of position. It’s as if we’re trying to help them by allowing them to man-mark and set up their defence for the attack that then never comes. I also wonder if players like Tilt are given instructions not to go too far forward? Our defenders start to go forward, have acres of space in front of them, but seem reluctant to push on. We are always screaming at them from the North Stand to take it forward. The difference is that we concede many goals from a swift attack. They attack in numbers and we struggle to cover them, or even try and tackle for the most part…what’s that all about? We regularly have the most possession AND the least shots and shots on target. Wood had fallen so far that from what people report, he falls back on talking about our domination of possession in his post-match. That’s desperation when we know and he knows that the type of possession we have is meaningless, because it’s mostly back four possession. I have watched the first two parts of the latest documentary and the owners are very clear that Smith wasn’t part of Wood’s plans (we all knew that anyway) and didn’t want to play him, but has been forced to, because he was the only one scoring. I refuse to believe that our squad are as bad as they are appearing and as much as I hate this, I think he lost the dressing room some time ago. The players don’t seem happy with our style of play or happy with him. Wood’s style is only effective when a team sits back and allows us to come on to them and I think a good example of that was Tranmere away this season, where we still did our best to let them back in, but they continued to sit very deep and let us play. But most teams sussed that early on, and so we find ourselves where we are. I don’t know enough about Dean Holden, but I will say this. The new guy CAN’T be seen to be another job creation scheme for their ex-team mates or someone else from Man U. It seemed at least from the documentary that Wood WAS involved in the discussions on who they needed in the squad. If that wasn’t just for the cameras, then we need someone who will leave the owners in no doubt what he needs. He can’t be a yes man, and a man who recognises the need for some pace in the team. I don’t think any of the owners will fancy the job and it shouldn’t be one of them long term. They are part of the problem. Let’s not forget that we have Butt as CEO, Giggs as ‘Head of Football’ (no I don’t understand that one either)! And Scholes is ‘Head of Recruitment’. How would any of them doing the job make things better?
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Post by chipbarm on Dec 29, 2023 10:42:03 GMT
Having been fortunate to have a few time zones of separation from Woods departure and the Tranmere result I am more convinced now - 48hrs after the fact this is a positive for our chances of getting away from the bottom of L2. I saw Bill Rice of BBC RM’s comments effectively suggesting that there are two chains of thought around the sacking - a) Wood over achieved last season and b)injuries have done for him and are the main factors in the poor first half of the season. Personally I think both don’t really tell the story of the last 18months certainly when you exclude the ‘mitigating factors’ we routinely broach in this forum. Tactically we have never gotten close to Wood’s original ideal, and coming into this season we seem to have become an end of the night yellow label fruit salad of a team. I don’t see what framework he has ever tried to build off style wise, and it’s become a bizarre mix of ideas whilst playing off the back foot. Whether it’s Ingram, Shep, or Garbutt as underlapping CB’s in a three akin to Granada in La Liga, or a low block version of City that he has tried to achieve we have become a team that spends so much time in our own half our attack is pretty non existent. Everything we do with or without the ball is far too deep. For a team with +60% possession most weeks we average less than 40% between the center circle and the oppositions 6 yard box. The knock here is we almost never turn the ball over in offensive areas - Salford are bottom for regains that end in a shot(9 - w/ 1 goal coming from the 9 shots) vs. Mansfield who are top with 41 shot - resulting in 5 goals. We are bottom for direct attacks which illustrates a lack of pace up top but also an inability to bait teams out to get behind them despite playing a system that is clearly designed to corral the opposition having gone over the top. Factor in poor game management and what appears to be a lack of Intensity this season versus last and you can see why we are unable to really pressure teams. I believe the squad we have is better when fit than last season’s. We needed to improve in both boxes and the area in front of the back line to be able to build out quicker and higher up the pitch. Between Ashley, Tilt, Garbutt, Ingram and John defensively we should have done that. Wood couldn’t handle his own remit and it’s cost him his job. On a match day I am dubious about his staff also, but I hope with time they get found out too. Wood has always been seen as a yes man for the board and his engagement with the fans has been pretty weird most weeks in his post match comments. With hindsight and as other stories are coming out about United and the end of Butt’s tenure there, essentially due to his running battles with Johnny Murtough. I can’t help but think poaching Wood was as much an F U to Murtough and Woodward, as well as looking after a former advocate within United’s coaching set up. I can see Wood back at United coaching at youth level when Ineos properly get a grip of the running of the sporting operation. But a L2 manager he never is nor will be based on this season, I hope Dean Holden is considered as a replacement because I think he gets this neck of the woods and type of football required. If it’s Giggs - by way of a PR exercise/rehabilitation I think more questions have to be put to the owners about their motives going forward. Strap in I think it’s going to be a bumpy ride til the summer. UTA! Some damning statistics in there, I knew we were passive but didn't realise quite how much. I'm very interested to see how quickly some of our injured players return now he's gone. I agree he lost the dressing room ages ago and I know it's a bit tin foil hat but I wonder if some were an excuse to duck out. Unprofessional if so but stranger things have happened. Dean Holden’s previous record isn't great and I hope he isn't being considered just because he's from Swinton. I am too but I doubt I'll be considered for the job. I'd like Danny Cowley but if reports are true he turned Bradford down so I don't think we have a hope there. Whoever it is I just hope there isn't an ex United connection as the ones we have had so far just haven't worked. There needs to be some degree of separation and not just jobs for the boys.
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Post by chipbarm on Dec 29, 2023 10:53:36 GMT
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Post by je85 on Dec 29, 2023 12:21:14 GMT
I was at the Celtics game last night. They didn’t look like a team who whiffed for 27 games previous in the first half. ESPN analytics has them not winning til Jan 10th…so add another 6 onto the 28 - Ouch!
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Post by je85 on Dec 29, 2023 14:16:07 GMT
Having been fortunate to have a few time zones of separation from Woods departure and the Tranmere result I am more convinced now - 48hrs after the fact this is a positive for our chances of getting away from the bottom of L2. I saw Bill Rice of BBC RM’s comments effectively suggesting that there are two chains of thought around the sacking - a) Wood over achieved last season and b)injuries have done for him and are the main factors in the poor first half of the season. Personally I think both don’t really tell the story of the last 18months certainly when you exclude the ‘mitigating factors’ we routinely broach in this forum. Tactically we have never gotten close to Wood’s original ideal, and coming into this season we seem to have become an end of the night yellow label fruit salad of a team. I don’t see what framework he has ever tried to build off style wise, and it’s become a bizarre mix of ideas whilst playing off the back foot. Whether it’s Ingram, Shep, or Garbutt as underlapping CB’s in a three akin to Granada in La Liga, or a low block version of City that he has tried to achieve we have become a team that spends so much time in our own half our attack is pretty non existent. Everything we do with or without the ball is far too deep. For a team with +60% possession most weeks we average less than 40% between the center circle and the oppositions 6 yard box. The knock here is we almost never turn the ball over in offensive areas - Salford are bottom for regains that end in a shot(9 - w/ 1 goal coming from the 9 shots) vs. Mansfield who are top with 41 shot - resulting in 5 goals. We are bottom for direct attacks which illustrates a lack of pace up top but also an inability to bait teams out to get behind them despite playing a system that is clearly designed to corral the opposition having gone over the top. Factor in poor game management and what appears to be a lack of Intensity this season versus last and you can see why we are unable to really pressure teams. I believe the squad we have is better when fit than last season’s. We needed to improve in both boxes and the area in front of the back line to be able to build out quicker and higher up the pitch. Between Ashley, Tilt, Garbutt, Ingram and John defensively we should have done that. Wood couldn’t handle his own remit and it’s cost him his job. On a match day I am dubious about his staff also, but I hope with time they get found out too. Wood has always been seen as a yes man for the board and his engagement with the fans has been pretty weird most weeks in his post match comments. With hindsight and as other stories are coming out about United and the end of Butt’s tenure there, essentially due to his running battles with Johnny Murtough. I can’t help but think poaching Wood was as much an F U to Murtough and Woodward, as well as looking after a former advocate within United’s coaching set up. I can see Wood back at United coaching at youth level when Ineos properly get a grip of the running of the sporting operation. But a L2 manager he never is nor will be based on this season, I hope Dean Holden is considered as a replacement because I think he gets this neck of the woods and type of football required. If it’s Giggs - by way of a PR exercise/rehabilitation I think more questions have to be put to the owners about their motives going forward. Strap in I think it’s going to be a bumpy ride til the summer. UTA! I’m not big on tactics. For me, football is s simple enough game and we get the simple things wrong. We have Cairns running around his box to play the quick ball, for our defenders to slow everything down. So slow that as you say, we aren’t dragging those players out of position. It’s as if we’re trying to help them by allowing them to man-mark and set up their defence for the attack that then never comes. I also wonder if players like Tilt are given instructions not to go too far forward? Our defenders start to go forward, have acres of space in front of them, but seem reluctant to push on. We are always screaming at them from the North Stand to take it forward. The difference is that we concede many goals from a swift attack. They attack in numbers and we struggle to cover them, or even try and tackle for the most part…what’s that all about? We regularly have the most possession AND the least shots and shots on target. Wood had fallen so far that from what people report, he falls back on talking about our domination of possession in his post-match. That’s desperation when we know and he knows that the type of possession we have is meaningless, because it’s mostly back four possession. I have watched the first two parts of the latest documentary and the owners are very clear that Smith wasn’t part of Wood’s plans (we all knew that anyway) and didn’t want to play him, but has been forced to, because he was the only one scoring. I refuse to believe that our squad are as bad as they are appearing and as much as I hate this, I think he lost the dressing room some time ago. The players don’t seem happy with our style of play or happy with him. Wood’s style is only effective when a team sits back and allows us to come on to them and I think a good example of that was Tranmere away this season, where we still did our best to let them back in, but they continued to sit very deep and let us play. But most teams sussed that early on, and so we find ourselves where we are. I don’t know enough about Dean Holden, but I will say this. The new guy CAN’T be seen to be another job creation scheme for their ex-team mates or someone else from Man U. It seemed at least from the documentary that Wood WAS involved in the discussions on who they needed in the squad. If that wasn’t just for the cameras, then we need someone who will leave the owners in no doubt what he needs. He can’t be a yes man, and a man who recognises the need for some pace in the team. I don’t think any of the owners will fancy the job and it shouldn’t be one of them long term. They are part of the problem. Let’s not forget that we have Butt as CEO, Giggs as ‘Head of Football’ (no I don’t understand that one either)! And Scholes is ‘Head of Recruitment’. How would any of them doing the job make things better? Having played every minute in L2, I personally have come to the conclusion Cairns is an able number two but he has been found out big time as a number 1 and a captain. He reeks of Toxic positivity and I am struggling to see much of a level up on Tim King in the last six months. Cairns has conceded 5 (4 of them probably against TRFC) more than our XG against this season and faced the 5th most shots after 23 games. But my main issue with Cairns is in build up, your right the CBs are really ponderous which is on Wood. But when a direct ball is on to N’Mai, Ingram, Bolton, McLennan, John etc he can’t hit the space ahead of them - instead goes short or hits it for a Smith flick on. In his defence I think Cairns has been as affected by Wood’s system changes as anyone especially with the ball. Wood seemed unable to adapt players to his system(s), teams have been itching for a recovering Watt’s return because it kills off Cairns ball into midfield. Wood has created a perfect storm of predictability for opponents and confusion for what his own players needed to do. As a team our expected goals is nominally higher than FGR but we have the leagues 3rd top scorer. It’s symptomatic of Wood’s lack of tactical acumen and in game management, it’s a tactical cluster-f**k created by an academy coach more focused on individual attributes and low risk for losing more than they win. I agree on the dressing room being gone months ago, you could see it in the body language and one or two you can tell don’t listen to the coaches. I don’t know his name but the young guy who seems more fitness focussed seems to really get players backs up in warm ups, I heard murmurs last season he was the one Hendry had a kick off with which saw Wood drop him. I haven’t seen the new doc yet but wouldn’t be surprised if the players saw edits early and threw it in definitively if ownership is outting the manager to that extent - that’s poor. If any of them went to the Owners like what happened with Lampard at Chelsea I wouldn’t be shocked. Ahhh well onto Grimsby UTA!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 14:54:27 GMT
I was at the Celtics game last night. They didn’t look like a team who whiffed for 27 games previous in the first half. ESPN analytics has them not winning til Jan 10th…so add another 6 onto the 28 - Ouch! No wins in 27? We have something to aim for!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 15:08:46 GMT
I'd been quiet about this thought but Jacob Chapman is out of contract in June. He enjoyed his time here and still has a picture of himself in a Salford kit at Moor Lane as his Twitter banner. He turned 23 so would be available on a free. Realistically I think any chance to sign him took a hit when he finally made a debut for Huddersfield as an injury sub on Boxing Day. If he fails to receive more gametime this year and Huddersfield stays up his chances to play next season may look limited with them. He had some maturity issues with us (I think 2 yellow cards for kicking the ball away although in 1 of those he thought it was game over) and he may not be as good of a keeper right now as Cairns is but imagine if we gained the repuation as a selling team. We could attract young players with potential, give them game time, sell them onto a higher league for a profit. That would attract more young players with potential, which would attract more young players with potential... It would even help the club with financial substainability. How many players have we sold on for profit to higher leagues? Hladky? BTA? I'd rather a young team of Chapmans hungry to grow their careers than a team full of veterans on their last contracts spending their days in the trainers room even if it meant we won less games and never made it out of the league.
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Post by chipbarm on Dec 29, 2023 15:14:02 GMT
I'd been quiet about this thought but Jacob Chapman is out of contract in June. He enjoyed his time here and still has a picture of himself in a Salford kit at Moor Lane as his Twitter banner. He turned 23 so would be available on a free. Realistically I think any chance to sign him took a hit when he finally made a debut for Huddersfield as an injury sub on Boxing Day. If he fails to receive more gametime this year and Huddersfield stays up his chances to play next season may look limited with them. He had some maturity issues with us (I think 2 yellow cards for kicking the ball away although in 1 of those he thought it was game over) and he may not be as good of a keeper right now as Cairns is but imagine if we gained the repuation as a selling team. We could attract young players with potential, give them game time, sell them onto a higher league for a profit. That would attract more young players with potential, which would attract more young players with potential... It would even help the club with financial substainability. How many players have we sold on for profit to higher leagues? Hladky? BTA? I'd rather a young team of Chapmans hungry to grow their careers than a team full of veterans on their last contracts spending their days in the trainers room even if it meant we won less games and never made it out of the league. There was an interesting snippet in Dannyboy's post Tranmere podcast about the high average age of our team/squad which is a mix of 30 somethings and young kids. We have a major gap in the middle 24 -28 bracket which is kind of a player's peak years. That's where we need to target our recruitment next season because as you say we are a bit of a retirement home for ageing footballers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 15:17:50 GMT
I'd been quiet about this thought but Jacob Chapman is out of contract in June. He enjoyed his time here and still has a picture of himself in a Salford kit at Moor Lane as his Twitter banner. He turned 23 so would be available on a free. Realistically I think any chance to sign him took a hit when he finally made a debut for Huddersfield as an injury sub on Boxing Day. If he fails to receive more gametime this year and Huddersfield stays up his chances to play next season may look limited with them. He had some maturity issues with us (I think 2 yellow cards for kicking the ball away although in 1 of those he thought it was game over) and he may not be as good of a keeper right now as Cairns is but imagine if we gained the repuation as a selling team. We could attract young players with potential, give them game time, sell them onto a higher league for a profit. That would attract more young players with potential, which would attract more young players with potential... It would even help the club with financial substainability. How many players have we sold on for profit to higher leagues? Hladky? BTA? I'd rather a young team of Chapmans hungry to grow their careers than a team full of veterans on their last contracts spending their days in the trainers room even if it meant we won less games and never made it out of the league. I'm horrible with technology and can't figure out how to properly quote someone that is already using a quote in their post. Every time I try to edit my post I make it worse lol My comment was in respone to je85's post on Cairns
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2023 15:26:45 GMT
I'd been quiet about this thought but Jacob Chapman is out of contract in June. He enjoyed his time here and still has a picture of himself in a Salford kit at Moor Lane as his Twitter banner. He turned 23 so would be available on a free. Realistically I think any chance to sign him took a hit when he finally made a debut for Huddersfield as an injury sub on Boxing Day. If he fails to receive more gametime this year and Huddersfield stays up his chances to play next season may look limited with them. He had some maturity issues with us (I think 2 yellow cards for kicking the ball away although in 1 of those he thought it was game over) and he may not be as good of a keeper right now as Cairns is but imagine if we gained the repuation as a selling team. We could attract young players with potential, give them game time, sell them onto a higher league for a profit. That would attract more young players with potential, which would attract more young players with potential... It would even help the club with financial substainability. How many players have we sold on for profit to higher leagues? Hladky? BTA? I'd rather a young team of Chapmans hungry to grow their careers than a team full of veterans on their last contracts spending their days in the trainers room even if it meant we won less games and never made it out of the league. There was an interesting snippet in Dannyboy's post Tranmere podcast about the high average age of our team/squad which is a mix of 30 somethings and young kids. We have a major gap in the middle 24 -28 bracket which is kind of a player's peak years. That's where we need to target our recruitment next season because as you say we are a bit of a retirement home for ageing footballers. This is only my belief but I also feel as though a younger squad brings hope. If a team is losing with a squad of 30 somethings there is not much hope it will get better in the future. If a team is losing with a squad of players in their early 20s there is hope that as their skills develop the team will improve.
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